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13 Responses to Ooh, ouch!!!

  • Scott says:

    You may be ready to declare war, and many of us might be ready to join you – but expect no assistance from the Republicans leadership. They are so dangerously incompetent that we still do not know the full extent of Sandy Berger’s thefts of confidential property.

    And as to the left, Harry Reid’s recent declaration that we lost the Iraq war and Nancy Pelosi’s initial refusal to even set up a briefing with General Petraeus are but the latest in a mountain of indicators that they are wholly uninterested in the truth of anything dealing with the Iraq war.

  • hillbilly says:

    Since finding that article on a .uk site, I’ve done a search and found similar articles in the U.S. press although none of them are big names in the MSM.

    There are ways to get these people out of Congress and the Senate but accomplishing it will be next to impossible because of the makeup of those bodies at this time. It’s not called impeachment for Representatives and Senators. It’s called recall and expulsion, both extremely difficult to accomplish.

    Considering the number of officials who deserve recall and expulsion, don’t expect to accomplish it. However, a strong grassroots effort attempting it may wake up those officials to the fact that they are being watched and they may, at the least, adjust some of their lawmaking actions accordingly.

    Dissemination of information is our best weapon right now. I suggest we all use it to full advantage. Once it’s on the internet it’s there forever in one form or another.

  • suek says:

    Consensus on is that it probably isn’t anything more than an effort to publish his book. I’d like to think that as well, but I’m concerned – absolutely. On the other hand…what is the timing? He says the Iraqis and Syrians moved all the stuff…did they also blow up the storage places that he says are so vast? If not, they should still be there and we should be able to explore them for traces.
    I also have to wonder about all that truck traffic about the time we went into war with Iraq. Could happen, I guess, but I also think that Saddam expected to get back in power – would he have allowed Syria to get his WMD? They were of the same political party, and the bond between muslims can be tight, but giving – or allowing – the next door country to remove _all_ your WMDs and trust that you’d get them all back if you came back into power? Saddam was _not_ a trusting man. Could they have taken them after he went into hiding?
    There are often reasons for not making such info public…but unfortunately when you don’t make it public, silence leaves a huge question mark as to whether the silence means absence of info. I have to admit that the Administration has been a disaster when it comes to defending themselves. The MSM is a Dem attack machine, and the internet doesn’t reach anyone who isn’t looking for info. We need someone out there who will be an attack dog for the Admin and who gets “face” time on TV…someone who they(the usual TV stations) can’t ignore – even if that’s the pres himself. Next one better be able to do it. Communication is critical.

  • hillbilly says:

    I don’t know there is any real credibility to the article or the person but his credentials are awfully sound. I can’t see anybody in his position wanting to blow those kind of credentials with crackpot claims… which is why it has me worried. But then, people have done a lot worse for a lot less haven’t they?

    One thing I’ve noticed about Muslims are they may differ into violence amongst themselves but if there’s an “outside” threat they will band together regardless of those differences, from the most moderate to the most fanatical. This is why I don’t trust any of them. They don’t seem to care that I don’t trust them… at least not enough to put any effort into showing they are trustworthy in any way.

    I believe that’s the opinion of that fellow Dave Gaubatz… that they were taken after Saddam went into hiding.

    You’re right about the internet being only a good tool for people who are looking for the information but people often talk at work and other gatherings… who knows? We just have to keep trying, don’t we? At this point, it’s either keep trying or give up entirely.

    This blog is only 1 1/2 months old and I’m tired already but I refuse to give up until I don’t see any chance of making a difference.

  • BB-Idaho says:

    “This blog is only 1 1/2 months old and I’m tired already but I refuse to give up until I don’t see any chance of making a difference.” Yes, I can imagine it is hard work. But all blogs
    make a difference, IMHO, probably not it large numbers of converting folk to a point of view, but in offering a constructive dialog and making people think about things.
    Regarding WMD, I suspect that most was de-conned after the
    1991 war and subsequent inspections. Two reasons: it would take significant truck traffic to move even a small amount, and we had surveillance aircraft everywhere at the time; secondly,
    our own WMD, some 5000 tons VX and considerably more
    non-persistant nerve gases have been stored at 7 US locations; we have been voluntarily de-conning it since the time of Nixon, and still have large amounts waiting…the stuff
    is simply hard to hide, hard to move..and hard to get rid of.
    Other experts with good credentials observe there were no
    WMDs in Iraq. They had rather crude material in the 80s which Saddam used against the Kurds, as well is in the Iraq-Iran conflict. The crude weapons fillings also tend to decompose over time. I’m certainly no tech expert, but had some experience as an Army Chemical officer in WMD research
    many years back, so the topic is of interest to me. Back to
    1 1/2 months of blogging…I think you are doing fine!

  • hillbilly says:

    Thanks, BB, that makes me a feel a little less nervous, knowing a little bit of your background from a previous post. Can’t stop worrying about everything else we know they (the enemy and our government) have done that doesn’t make us safe in our own country.

  • suek says:

    As a chem expert…where do you think the recent finds of chlorine gas and nitric acid are coming from? It seems to me that either they are:
    shipped in
    stored by Saddam
    currently manufactured

    Are there any other possibilities?

    In each case, the “how” is the big question. If currently manufactured, then are there sympathizers in the manufacturing facilities, or is it being stolen?
    If it’s being shipped in, how are we not seeing it? is it coming from east or west?
    If it’s stores from Saddam’s era…we need to find it. We know it’s been at _least_ four years – what’s the life on the two chemicals?

    It seems to me that the quantities are significant…

  • BB-Idaho says:

    Suek inquired “where do you think the recent finds of chlorine gas and nitric acid are coming from?” Hey, I’m no chemical expert! Just a retired explosives chemist/manager from the
    defense industry. Chlorine is very common, among other uses, it is utilized in water purification as well as mfg PVC, bleaches and the like. (A form, hypochlorite, by the way is a common destruct agent for most types of nerve gases). So, in the US we find well over 800,000 tons a year produced: see for details. Yes, it is a poisonous gas,
    capable of forming hydrochloric acid in the lungs, among other ugly attributes. Yes, we can generate forms of this toxin by
    mixing the wrong toilet cleaners. But, it is very common, and I would expect to find it in Iraq and nearly everywhere else.
    Nitric acid is less common, (couldn’t locate US production figures, sorry), my department used 300 gallons superstrength stuff making explosives each month: it is
    a base of many conventional explosives including nitroglycerin
    and gun propellants. Even more is used in the fertilizer industry to make various nitrates (including the infamous
    ammonium nitrate used to destroy the Oklamoma City Federal building) So, I’m not surprised to see either chemical in Iraq:
    most freight trains in the US pull many tank cars of chlorine and quite few of nitric acid daily. Like many chemicals, these two are used mostly for making good things..plastics, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals, etc: and like many chemicals, they
    can be deadly, or used to make deadly things…remember the
    old DuPont ad..better things for better living, through chemistry? Like Suek, I would be concerned that these things in the wrong hands could be used for terror purposes..and I’m sure our military/police are well aware of the potential.

  • Amy Proctor says:

    It sounds like unsubstantiated heresay to me, but there were WMD in Iraq in some form or another when the U.S. invaded. As President Bush said, there were not stockpiles but the capability to make WMD in Iraq. That we know for sure.

    When my husband was hiking up Highway 8 into Baghdad in 2003, I watched on CNN the unearthing of chemcial agents in capsules in the backyards of Baathist leaders while they looked sheepishly on.

    The problem in the war has always been the State Department, if one must assess blame. The white collared out of touch sorts who tell the guys on the ground how to fight are the problem.

  • suek says:

    >>Chlorine is very common, among other uses, it is utilized in water purification as well as mfg PVC, bleaches and the like.>>

    Yeah but….

    We’re talking Iraq here. Limited manufacturing facilities, limited almost everything…and 5000 gal tanks. How do you get that quantity somewhere?

  • hillbilly says:

    The consensus seems to be there’s not a lot of meat in the story, one even mentioned the fact that John Loftus was cited in the article as well.

    All in all, the Bush lied lie is just that. They found parts, they found the wherewithal to allow Hussein to reconstitute his WMDs. Congress had the same information that Bush had, they just chose not to avail themselves of that information. There was a long delay between when it was brought up, taken before the United Nations, and the actual beginning of the war. The United Nations delayed and brought to light their own corruption in the delays. Hussein had been getting around the sanctions for years. We (the United States) were betrayed on all fronts. Bush knew that.

    Aside from WMDs there were a lot of reasons for going to war with Iraq, not least freeing an oppressed people and preventing genocide. Some argue that once we leave, no matter how long the military stays, that they will go back to killing each other anyway. Politics always looks after itself first and then everybody else.

    That may be true, but who do you want in power? Al Quaeda or the Iraqi government. That government is too weak right now to defend itself. They’ve got a long way to go before they will be able to not only fully take the rains of government but national security.

April 2007


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