Comments on: The Death of Freedom of Speech http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/ Just Down to Earth Politcal Discussions in Plain English for the "Rest of Us." Mon, 06 Sep 2010 23:19:35 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: hillbilly http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2175 hillbilly Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:30:00 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2175 They would, AC. They really would. It wouldn't matter that they would be wrong. All that would matter was I was protesting something that the PC crowd thinks I shouldn't. I have been called a racist already for speaking out against illegal aliens. Why would I expect a public protest to end any differently? Nicely, you say? http://www.townhall.com/content/603407eb-7815-44b5-80fb-47e13a6735ee I haven't seen much peaceful out of the peaceniks. They go way beyond holding up signs and we really have no idea what those others were doing in the back of the room because Farooz's voice overpowered just about every other sound in the room. I do recall they had to be carried out of the room. Considering they came as a group with Farooz... well... They would, AC. They really would. It wouldn’t matter that they would be wrong. All that would matter was I was protesting something that the PC crowd thinks I shouldn’t. I have been called a racist already for speaking out against illegal aliens. Why would I expect a public protest to end any differently?

Nicely, you say?

http://www.townhall.com/content/603407eb-7815-44b5-80fb-47e13a6735ee

I haven’t seen much peaceful out of the peaceniks. They go way beyond holding up signs and we really have no idea what those others were doing in the back of the room because Farooz’s voice overpowered just about every other sound in the room. I do recall they had to be carried out of the room. Considering they came as a group with Farooz… well…

]]> By: AnonymousCoward http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2160 AnonymousCoward Tue, 30 Oct 2007 03:01:27 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2160 The one that came close to Condi clearly invaded her personal space. I was referring to the ones in the room that were just heckling ... "nicely" :). I am not a fan of people that prevent other from speaking, and I am really disappointed in came down to this. They would call you a racist? Hate speech? I don't believe that!!! Anyways even if you were a heckler, I don't plan to do litigation... On the other hand if you want to do some corporate work (Mergers and Acquisitions, Securitization, etc.), then I might be the right guy! The one that came close to Condi clearly invaded her personal space. I was referring to the ones in the room that were just heckling … “nicely” :) .

I am not a fan of people that prevent other from speaking, and I am really disappointed in came down to this.

They would call you a racist? Hate speech? I don’t believe that!!! Anyways even if you were a heckler, I don’t plan to do litigation… On the other hand if you want to do some corporate work (Mergers and Acquisitions, Securitization, etc.), then I might be the right guy!

]]> By: hillbilly http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2156 hillbilly Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:46:46 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2156 Oh, btw... I have a couple of new posts to make and I feel guilty about neglecting my posting duties so I'll be posting one here and one at HRP... If I don't fall asleep too early, I'll post tonight. If I do, well, I'll post them tomorrow. Oh, btw… I have a couple of new posts to make and I feel guilty about neglecting my posting duties so I’ll be posting one here and one at HRP… If I don’t fall asleep too early, I’ll post tonight. If I do, well, I’ll post them tomorrow.

]]> By: hillbilly http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2155 hillbilly Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:22:15 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2155 Ms. Farooz accosted Ms. Rice. Ms. Farooz invaded Ms. Rice's personal space. She was close enough to do physical damage without any type of special weapon. A pencil or pen would have done at that proximity. There's a difference between heckling at the back of a room, regardless of how loud and obnoxious you are doing it, and invading someone's personal space and interfering with a congressional hearing. As far as yelling at a business' customers, it would really depend on where I'm standing as to whether I could be arrested for trespassing. If I'm in the store, of course I can be arrested but if I'm standing on public property, it's iffy. Depends on whether I'm disturbing the peace or not at that point. However, they'd probably call me a racist and get me for hate speech first. All in all, Mr. Horowitz and others have the right to speak. Those who protested, disrupted, and shut down the lecture before it could properly begin had a right to disagree but not allowing him to speak at all was an abridgment of free speech... or they could have just not shown up for the lecture at all. No one twisted their arms and made them go. They attended with the express purpose of: not allowing Mr. Horowitz to speak. Don't worry, AC, I'm not the heckling kind. I'd rather ask questions and get straight answers... not that that happens very often these days... but I do know how to keep asking until I get answers... without ever resorting to heckling... :wink: Ms. Farooz accosted Ms. Rice. Ms. Farooz invaded Ms. Rice’s personal space. She was close enough to do physical damage without any type of special weapon. A pencil or pen would have done at that proximity. There’s a difference between heckling at the back of a room, regardless of how loud and obnoxious you are doing it, and invading someone’s personal space and interfering with a congressional hearing.

As far as yelling at a business’ customers, it would really depend on where I’m standing as to whether I could be arrested for trespassing. If I’m in the store, of course I can be arrested but if I’m standing on public property, it’s iffy. Depends on whether I’m disturbing the peace or not at that point. However, they’d probably call me a racist and get me for hate speech first.

All in all, Mr. Horowitz and others have the right to speak. Those who protested, disrupted, and shut down the lecture before it could properly begin had a right to disagree but not allowing him to speak at all was an abridgment of free speech… or they could have just not shown up for the lecture at all. No one twisted their arms and made them go. They attended with the express purpose of: not allowing Mr. Horowitz to speak.

Don’t worry, AC, I’m not the heckling kind. I’d rather ask questions and get straight answers… not that that happens very often these days… but I do know how to keep asking until I get answers… without ever resorting to heckling… :wink:

]]> By: AnonymousCoward http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2154 AnonymousCoward Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:05:31 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2154 The first amendment is about Congress making rules. If I own a business and you start yelling to my clients that I employ illegal aliens, I believe I can have you kicked out because of trespassing. Even if it is the police that arrests you. But, the Fed government can't pass a law that says you can't blog about this pertinent issue. That would be a violation of your first amendment. If you want to push for a broader freedom of speech right, I will be among those supporting you. But in the meantime, when you get arrested, please don't quote me, because I am not a lawyer yet and hence can't give legal advice :). Related to BB-Idaho's point: last week, code pink protestors were kicked out of the Condi hearings for voicing their opinions... The first amendment is about Congress making rules. If I own a business and you start yelling to my clients that I employ illegal aliens, I believe I can have you kicked out because of trespassing. Even if it is the police that arrests you.
But, the Fed government can’t pass a law that says you can’t blog about this pertinent issue. That would be a violation of your first amendment.

If you want to push for a broader freedom of speech right, I will be among those supporting you.

But in the meantime, when you get arrested, please don’t quote me, because I am not a lawyer yet and hence can’t give legal advice :) .

Related to BB-Idaho’s point: last week, code pink protestors were kicked out of the Condi hearings for voicing their opinions…

]]> By: hillbilly http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2153 hillbilly Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:50:57 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2153 Wapo: In one brief but tense exchange in New Hampshire, the protesters stood yelling just a few feet from Gore before being escorted out by police. In the above post, Horowitz was led out, not the protestors, which proves my point. Good try, though. Wapo: In one brief but tense exchange in New Hampshire, the protesters stood yelling just a few feet from Gore before being escorted out by police.

In the above post, Horowitz was led out, not the protestors, which proves my point.

Good try, though.

]]> By: BB-Idaho http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2152 BB-Idaho Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:11:10 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2152 You are free to heckle any speaker you wish: it is termed 'civil disobedience' and you take your chances. Horowitz isn't the only victim, for Gore getting heckled see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/gore061899.htm http://talk.livedaily.com/showthread.php?t=574817 You are free to heckle any speaker you wish: it is termed ‘civil disobedience’ and you take your chances. Horowitz isn’t the only victim, for Gore getting heckled see:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/gore061899.htm

http://talk.livedaily.com/showthread.php?t=574817

]]> By: hillbilly http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2151 hillbilly Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:47:05 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2151 "Hillbilly, I think to claim that there is a violation of the right to free speech in those circumstances is a real stretch. " Okay, let's do it the other way around, then. Let's say the next time Al Gore lectures on global warming, there are a bunch of hecklers in the back raising such a ruckus. How many of those hecklers do you think will be physically removed and get arrested for disorderly conduct, at the very least? Let's say I'm one of the hecklers. When I get arrested, shall I quote you (being a legal expert) that Congress didn't guarantee the rest of us couldn't abridge free speech? Do you think it will get the charges dropped? “Hillbilly, I think to claim that there is a violation of the right to free speech in those circumstances is a real stretch. ”

Okay, let’s do it the other way around, then.

Let’s say the next time Al Gore lectures on global warming, there are a bunch of hecklers in the back raising such a ruckus.

How many of those hecklers do you think will be physically removed and get arrested for disorderly conduct, at the very least?

Let’s say I’m one of the hecklers. When I get arrested, shall I quote you (being a legal expert) that Congress didn’t guarantee the rest of us couldn’t abridge free speech? Do you think it will get the charges dropped?

]]> By: AnonymousCoward http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2147 AnonymousCoward Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:07:48 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2147 I love the deportations discussions! How many Anti-Americans in the Anti-American faction of the Anti-American party? (Is it just the members of MoveOn.org and the ACLU?) Hillbilly, I think to claim that there is a violation of the right to free speech in those circumstances is a real stretch. The first amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" I don't think in this case Congress did anything to prevent Horowitz and his buddies from speaking. Just for the record, I am personnaly not a fan of preventing people from speaking. But, in some cases, it does appear necessary. Consider for example the case of Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines (RTLM) in Rwanda that spread hate and encouraged genocide. I am not saying that what Horowitz is saying is in any way comparable to what RTLM did, but I just want to show that sometimes the right to speak clearly infringes on other rights (like the right to live). I love the deportations discussions! How many Anti-Americans in the Anti-American faction of the Anti-American party? (Is it just the members of MoveOn.org and the ACLU?)

Hillbilly, I think to claim that there is a violation of the right to free speech in those circumstances is a real stretch.

The first amendment reads: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances”

I don’t think in this case Congress did anything to prevent Horowitz and his buddies from speaking.

Just for the record, I am personnaly not a fan of preventing people from speaking. But, in some cases, it does appear necessary. Consider for example the case of Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines (RTLM) in Rwanda that spread hate and encouraged genocide.

I am not saying that what Horowitz is saying is in any way comparable to what RTLM did, but I just want to show that sometimes the right to speak clearly infringes on other rights (like the right to live).

]]> By: Kathy http://hillbillypolitics.com/2007/10/26/the-death-of-freedom-of-speech/comment-page-1/#comment-2142 Kathy Sun, 28 Oct 2007 16:59:29 +0000 http://hillbillypolitics.com/?p=261#comment-2142 The kid who was tazed, BB - was a liberal. Turns out he wanted to be tazed. Noticed. Drudge had an article on it - but I didn't save the link. And I'm only interested in deporting the anti-American faction of the Anti-American party. The kid who was tazed, BB – was a liberal. Turns out he wanted to be tazed. Noticed. Drudge had an article on it – but I didn’t save the link.

And I’m only interested in deporting the anti-American faction of the Anti-American party.

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